. . Subject: Re: Anarchist Have Done Positive Things in History . . . . . . . > ... > ... > ... > ... > ... > ... > ... > ... > ... > ... > ... > ... > ... > ... > ... > ... > ... > ... [...] If you want that to be believable, maybe you should decry any and all violence committed under the flag of 'anarchism,' which often is state provocateurs but probably also with regular anarchists. Why do you think agent-provocateurs like best to pose as anarchists, rather then for example as communists ? The communists have a long and consistent history of decrying and strategically opposing the tactic of terrorism. > ... is done clearly under the anarchist flag or association. That is not merely looking away, it is not merely condoning it, it is sanctioning it and it is agreeing with it, because as self-styled spokesperson for 'anarchy' you have the power to distance yourselve from senseless acts of violence, and in any case are in the regular habbit of expressing yourselve(s) as individuals (and 'anarchists'). So, at the end of the day you only make it worse by claiming to be socially progressive, and then at the same time agreeing, virtually ordering, the violence (oh yes ordering it, you think the anarchists don't have a hierarchy ? Sure they do, there are followers and there are leaders and there are theorists, it is all the same, only difference is that the anarchists choose to ignore actual reality, substitute a pipe dream, and then stuff a pipe bomb in it for good measure.) What do the communists do ? What do I do ? Ok what do I do: I decry all violence, I'm largely against protests anyway, I promote peaceful organization and would only go to arms if the essential political freedoms are under dire threat. How would that uprising be then, idiotic anarchists throwing pipe bombs down the throat of police officers who merely do their honorable job, maintaining order against the street criminals (usually) ? Nope: by setting up an organized military, complete with rank & file and focussed its command in a general who is to be accountible and responsible, and all these armies are intended to actually win. Not merely to provide the smoke cover for a police state which is all the anarchists are doing. Actually to win a war when that is called for. Not by breaking a few windows, but by bombarding enemy positions if it came to that, and to rule the streets in the name of freedom of speech and assembly with machine guns, artillery, and so on. By then, in case of victory, we are the state, we are the sovereign. Then we install true democracy anyway, we protect these rights not only for ourselves, but particularly for our enemies/opponents (not to regroup and counter-attack though, obviously, but later we probably would even allow a build up of that and would beat them again if we need to). That means that this violence of my armies will be directed, will have to be strategically and principally sound, and will be ordered from a high officer, who will clearly have to understand the repercussions of engaging in the senseless violence that only provoces a police state that the anarchists teenagers and over-aged teenagers engage in as private disorganized mobs. Shame and disgust on you. You still haven't decried the senseless violence that anarchists commit. You still haven't thrown this 'black block' scum which is probably more then half agent provocateurs out. This taints the good you may have done with black, your own foolish choice. Until you throw that violence you love so much out, I don't think there can be a meaningful cooperation between the socialists and anarchists, simply because if we'd join then a) We get all associated with the violence you refuse to disassociate from. This can turn the good people and ourselves away from that (as it should). b) We get far too many agent provocateurs who are in your rank. c) We get far too many idiotic teenagers who simply lust for violence even if they do mean ultimately well. Decry terrrorism as a tactic, decry the senseless violence and the hooded protesters. Quit trying to be more then you are. If you are with 10, you have the right to speak up with the power of 10, and not with the power of 10.000 simply by destroying property. In your demonstrations you never stop the people who start to commit violence, but you ignore it, which is condoning it. In my demonstrations if they are ever to happen, all people are to dress nicely, and we have order troops that will arrest people destroying property. You can bet that we will barr anarchists from our efforts, and arrest you promptly and if need be violently. You are our enemy.